These are such good points. I had seen before that fascinating point that dissolving the ego is the opposite of what women need to do. But thinking about the masculine nature of the heroes journey is really important, I think, at least for me as a writer of fiction. Have any models more suitable for women been developed?
I wrote recently of the difficulties women have overcoming their fear of being seen. And the cause of that fear is unfortunately unwanted male attention and male violence. These are really challenging to deal with. I will write about this further.
Thanks Ros. There are indeed far more useful approaches for women (the Heroine’s Journey, for one) and I’ll be writing much more on this subject!
But what I will say here and now is that the answer lies less in a different model or framework or structure - that is the externalising, logical masculine at work (as per usual).
The real work for women is within us. To become aware of the conditioning (the system and how it lives in our reflexes and responses), and to reconnect with what’s been buried.
I agree with you, and this is a good summation, Rachel, of what we women have tended to bury. Perhaps I'm unusual in that I didn't bury any of that as a girl, but I received a huge amount of backlash and punishment from a patriarchal system for not doing so, and then had a lot of wounds/trauma to tend to/work through/heal. But for the last few years have been emerging/reintegrating back into my power.
In a personal growth arena what you're saying makes total sense; what I'm interested in as a writer of fiction is also how we shed the idea of this journey as being relevant to our female protagonists. I'm being recommended (in my Note restacking this post) The Heroine's Journey and also Sharon Blackie so I'll begin with those.
This reminds of when I attended a seminar on creativity run by a brilliant woman (Pea the Feary). When asked why we joined this, many of us replied that we were afraid of all the danger that would attend success. All the aggression. All the “Oh you think you’re SO special, huh?” — It was fascinating that that fear was underlying our “inaction” — or rather our lack of sharing our work with the world. And the fear IS in fact well founded. It can be transcended but it’s there because of how the world treats brilliant, creative, confident, assertive and present women.
Absolutely. And let’s not forget only a few generations back, powerful women were being burned at the stake. Why stick your neck out if you fear your head’ll be chopped off?
I had a powerful vision at one point in my healing journey (about 15 years ago) of being burned at the stake; it was visceral, I felt it run through my body like a shiver. If we have past lives, I was definitely executed in one of them.
This is what I’ve been screaming into the void, between raising a daughter, raising my own fire, and refusing to shrink my work down into someone else’s success model.
The frameworks were never made for us.
Not for the women building empires with one arm in a sling and the other wiping tears off the kitchen floor.
Not for the ones whose power terrifies even themselves.
I read Marge Piercy about 30 yrs ago and because of her way of creating stories she is one of few fiction authors I can enjoy, because it has no heroes journey, but involves so much relatable psychological challenge and deep purpose. You might like Woman on the Edge of Time. Then again you might not.😉 Just a thought.
Hi Ros — I’m also a fiction writer, exploring a feminist critique of the hero’s journey. Besides Maureen Murdock’s classic, see Valerie Frankel, From Girl to Goddess and Gail Carriger, The Heroine’s Journey. My own novels are set in 4,000 BCE, when and where patriarchy first originated and offer an alternative take on the traditional hero’s journey (She Who Rides Horses (book one): A Saga of the Ancient Steppe and She Who Rides Horses (book two): A Clan Chief’s Daughter (forthcoming). The stories we tell ourselves are important.
1) My husband and I are in our 70's, he is disabled and I take care of him to the best of my abilities, as he would do for me.
I love him and don't resent taking care of him, but what bothers me is nobody, even him, ever asks me how I am managing re: all the things I can no longer do. Is it because there is an assumption that caretaking and nurturing are such fundamental female roles that they are enough for us, that we don't need or want anything more?
2) My 38 year old single daughter who doesn't want children, has a career she loves, earns a boatload of money, travels the world, enjoys a large circle of friends up and down the west coast - is the happiest, most confident person I know. And yet our society can't wait to tell her how unfulfilled and miserable she must be. Why is that?
Yes! So true! Most of that realm of Atomic habits, deep work, modern male stoicism etc etc is all written by men. If these guys have kids, they have wives and girlfriends raising them. I Want those women's books! I opted out of reading that stuff ages ago! Thank you for writing this!
Exactly! Women are used to toil and sacrifice Men have to trick themselves into thinking it's "cool". Also, I'm not sure Marcus Aurelius would like Ryan Holliday. Seems like a bastardization of the original philosophy
I've found that in the discipline of Anthropology, most studies are based on a completely male vantage point. Most recently I attended a conference and witnessed a young PhD candidate give a presentation on her research which I found fascinating! She analyzed food remnants on ancient pottery in Pre-Columbian Peru and used spectrophotometry to differentiate the meals and combinations of foods in particular meals. Wow, I realized we've been missing the study of half of our universe!
I wanted to kick Joseph Campbell right out of the window!
I did a binge on heroine’s journey books: Women Who Run With the Wolves (Clarissa Pinkola Estés), Jane Eyre’s Sisters: How Women Live and Write the Heroine’s Story (Jody Gentian Bower), The Sound of the Silver Horn: Reclaiming The Heroism in Contemporary Women’s Lives (Kathleen Noble), Pandora’s Jar: Women in the Greek Myths (Natalie Haynes), Cassandra Speaks: When Women are the Storytellers, the Human Story Changes (Elizabeth Lesser). The rabbit hole is deep and lined with sparkling gems 🩵
I’d add: The Vital Spark (Lisa Marchiano), If Women Rose Rooted and Hagitude (Sharon Blackie) and of course The Heroine’s Journey (Maureen Murdock, who thankfully took zero notice of Campbell and his utter lack of interest in female development)
That’s a brilliant list! I haven’t read Hagitude yet. Must get a copy. So many books, such a small book budget 😅 my library has a decent English language section but it’s the downside of living in a non-English speaking country as a native speaker.
This was one of the most impactful articles I have read in a long time. I so appreciate the care and clarity you’ve brought to a subject that tends to be discussed as settled law by most. But to so many women it just feels “off” and with no easy explanation within reach. Thank you for offering one.
Totally makes sense. Let go of our self absorption! Ha, I had none for myself cause I gave it all to others... and I have been struggling with my own business glass ceiling. Trading $ for time and never feeling enough. Bah, I'm done, menopause is truly freeing.
So very very true. So good to hear what I’ve been thinking and saying for years about the self development industry: it’s so masculine, based on goals and outcomes and productivity rather than connection, collaboration, meaning and embodied wisdom and dynamic action.
I’m trying to be more aware of where I’m taking action from, cos if I’m in a fearful place and feeling a strong sense of lack then I’ll make knee jerk decisions on courses or resources that I end up regretting
But when I’m aligned or when someone I trust and love suggests them then they usually end up being incredibly helpful, Like ‘women are the medicine’ !!!
Rings true. I'm now trying to think of a model that does work for women. It would have to be flexible to changing priorities, mindful of diverse emotions, inclusive of different stakeholders and intuitive. The Kubler Ross Change Curve springs to mind.
The first time I sat down to write about the hardest parts of my childhood—the addiction, the arrests, the ache of being a kid who felt invisible—I didn’t need a goal-setting worksheet. I needed a safe container. I needed space for grief. I needed to feel like my truth wouldn’t ruin me. And this line really hit me...
“The real healing isn’t in dissolving who they are. It’s in remembering who the hell they are.”
That’s been my entire journey as a writer, a mother, a woman. I didn’t need to be obliterated. I needed to be reclaimed.
Also, check out One of many, a women’s coaching organisation that is doing similar work. There may be opportunities for collaboration. https://oneofmany.co.uk/
These are such good points. I had seen before that fascinating point that dissolving the ego is the opposite of what women need to do. But thinking about the masculine nature of the heroes journey is really important, I think, at least for me as a writer of fiction. Have any models more suitable for women been developed?
I wrote recently of the difficulties women have overcoming their fear of being seen. And the cause of that fear is unfortunately unwanted male attention and male violence. These are really challenging to deal with. I will write about this further.
Thanks Ros. There are indeed far more useful approaches for women (the Heroine’s Journey, for one) and I’ll be writing much more on this subject!
But what I will say here and now is that the answer lies less in a different model or framework or structure - that is the externalising, logical masculine at work (as per usual).
The real work for women is within us. To become aware of the conditioning (the system and how it lives in our reflexes and responses), and to reconnect with what’s been buried.
And what’s been buried?
Our power.
Our desires.
Our creativity.
Our rage.
Our shadow selves.
Our dreams.
It all needs to be reclaimed and reintegrated.
I agree with you, and this is a good summation, Rachel, of what we women have tended to bury. Perhaps I'm unusual in that I didn't bury any of that as a girl, but I received a huge amount of backlash and punishment from a patriarchal system for not doing so, and then had a lot of wounds/trauma to tend to/work through/heal. But for the last few years have been emerging/reintegrating back into my power.
In a personal growth arena what you're saying makes total sense; what I'm interested in as a writer of fiction is also how we shed the idea of this journey as being relevant to our female protagonists. I'm being recommended (in my Note restacking this post) The Heroine's Journey and also Sharon Blackie so I'll begin with those.
Yes Sharon Blackie is also fantastic: If Women Rose Rooted and Hagitude. I also very much recommend Lisa Marchiano’s The Vital Spark 🔥
Yes!
Yes.
This reminds of when I attended a seminar on creativity run by a brilliant woman (Pea the Feary). When asked why we joined this, many of us replied that we were afraid of all the danger that would attend success. All the aggression. All the “Oh you think you’re SO special, huh?” — It was fascinating that that fear was underlying our “inaction” — or rather our lack of sharing our work with the world. And the fear IS in fact well founded. It can be transcended but it’s there because of how the world treats brilliant, creative, confident, assertive and present women.
Absolutely. And let’s not forget only a few generations back, powerful women were being burned at the stake. Why stick your neck out if you fear your head’ll be chopped off?
I had a powerful vision at one point in my healing journey (about 15 years ago) of being burned at the stake; it was visceral, I felt it run through my body like a shiver. If we have past lives, I was definitely executed in one of them.
Yep. You maybe read it already but I wrote about it here: https://www.howtoevolve.me/p/please-see-me?r=aywda
Oh this?
This is what I’ve been screaming into the void, between raising a daughter, raising my own fire, and refusing to shrink my work down into someone else’s success model.
The frameworks were never made for us.
Not for the women building empires with one arm in a sling and the other wiping tears off the kitchen floor.
Not for the ones whose power terrifies even themselves.
We don’t need to transcend.
We need to take up fucking space.
I’ve got my own name for what this is.
But you nailed the ache.
Subscribed. Shared.
I’ll be watching what you write🔥
This is exactly it! The creepers!
There is a heroine journey that I haven't checked out yet.
I read Marge Piercy about 30 yrs ago and because of her way of creating stories she is one of few fiction authors I can enjoy, because it has no heroes journey, but involves so much relatable psychological challenge and deep purpose. You might like Woman on the Edge of Time. Then again you might not.😉 Just a thought.
I read it when it came out! One of my favourite books in my twenties.
Hi Ros — I’m also a fiction writer, exploring a feminist critique of the hero’s journey. Besides Maureen Murdock’s classic, see Valerie Frankel, From Girl to Goddess and Gail Carriger, The Heroine’s Journey. My own novels are set in 4,000 BCE, when and where patriarchy first originated and offer an alternative take on the traditional hero’s journey (She Who Rides Horses (book one): A Saga of the Ancient Steppe and She Who Rides Horses (book two): A Clan Chief’s Daughter (forthcoming). The stories we tell ourselves are important.
1) My husband and I are in our 70's, he is disabled and I take care of him to the best of my abilities, as he would do for me.
I love him and don't resent taking care of him, but what bothers me is nobody, even him, ever asks me how I am managing re: all the things I can no longer do. Is it because there is an assumption that caretaking and nurturing are such fundamental female roles that they are enough for us, that we don't need or want anything more?
2) My 38 year old single daughter who doesn't want children, has a career she loves, earns a boatload of money, travels the world, enjoys a large circle of friends up and down the west coast - is the happiest, most confident person I know. And yet our society can't wait to tell her how unfulfilled and miserable she must be. Why is that?
Yes! So true! Most of that realm of Atomic habits, deep work, modern male stoicism etc etc is all written by men. If these guys have kids, they have wives and girlfriends raising them. I Want those women's books! I opted out of reading that stuff ages ago! Thank you for writing this!
Don’t get me started on modern male stoicism. Discipline! Obsessive consistency! Hard work and never ending effort! 😒
Time for a different approach.
Exactly! Women are used to toil and sacrifice Men have to trick themselves into thinking it's "cool". Also, I'm not sure Marcus Aurelius would like Ryan Holliday. Seems like a bastardization of the original philosophy
I've found that in the discipline of Anthropology, most studies are based on a completely male vantage point. Most recently I attended a conference and witnessed a young PhD candidate give a presentation on her research which I found fascinating! She analyzed food remnants on ancient pottery in Pre-Columbian Peru and used spectrophotometry to differentiate the meals and combinations of foods in particular meals. Wow, I realized we've been missing the study of half of our universe!
This really hit home
“They’re not trying to transcend the ego.
They’re trying to build one.”
I feel seen :)
I wanted to kick Joseph Campbell right out of the window!
I did a binge on heroine’s journey books: Women Who Run With the Wolves (Clarissa Pinkola Estés), Jane Eyre’s Sisters: How Women Live and Write the Heroine’s Story (Jody Gentian Bower), The Sound of the Silver Horn: Reclaiming The Heroism in Contemporary Women’s Lives (Kathleen Noble), Pandora’s Jar: Women in the Greek Myths (Natalie Haynes), Cassandra Speaks: When Women are the Storytellers, the Human Story Changes (Elizabeth Lesser). The rabbit hole is deep and lined with sparkling gems 🩵
What a fantastic list of books 🙌
I’d add: The Vital Spark (Lisa Marchiano), If Women Rose Rooted and Hagitude (Sharon Blackie) and of course The Heroine’s Journey (Maureen Murdock, who thankfully took zero notice of Campbell and his utter lack of interest in female development)
Hmmm what else? 🤔
That’s a brilliant list! I haven’t read Hagitude yet. Must get a copy. So many books, such a small book budget 😅 my library has a decent English language section but it’s the downside of living in a non-English speaking country as a native speaker.
Ha! I’m reading women who run with wolves right now 🥰
I completely agree—most assessment tools and organizational structures are designed by and for men.
As women or minorities, we need to create spaces shaped by inclusive values.
Gosh you took me right back to many years ago in my coaching course, all those acronyms, I cringe thinking about it.
Nothing worked for me ON ME, let alone for me to work with on others.
Such a great piece, thank you
Thanks Sabrina 💚 and ugh, yes, all those ridiculous acronyms! I think there was one called CIGAR, which just about sums it all up 😒
Oh my 😆
This was one of the most impactful articles I have read in a long time. I so appreciate the care and clarity you’ve brought to a subject that tends to be discussed as settled law by most. But to so many women it just feels “off” and with no easy explanation within reach. Thank you for offering one.
Totally makes sense. Let go of our self absorption! Ha, I had none for myself cause I gave it all to others... and I have been struggling with my own business glass ceiling. Trading $ for time and never feeling enough. Bah, I'm done, menopause is truly freeing.
So very very true. So good to hear what I’ve been thinking and saying for years about the self development industry: it’s so masculine, based on goals and outcomes and productivity rather than connection, collaboration, meaning and embodied wisdom and dynamic action.
I’m trying to be more aware of where I’m taking action from, cos if I’m in a fearful place and feeling a strong sense of lack then I’ll make knee jerk decisions on courses or resources that I end up regretting
But when I’m aligned or when someone I trust and love suggests them then they usually end up being incredibly helpful, Like ‘women are the medicine’ !!!
Rings true. I'm now trying to think of a model that does work for women. It would have to be flexible to changing priorities, mindful of diverse emotions, inclusive of different stakeholders and intuitive. The Kubler Ross Change Curve springs to mind.
The first time I sat down to write about the hardest parts of my childhood—the addiction, the arrests, the ache of being a kid who felt invisible—I didn’t need a goal-setting worksheet. I needed a safe container. I needed space for grief. I needed to feel like my truth wouldn’t ruin me. And this line really hit me...
“The real healing isn’t in dissolving who they are. It’s in remembering who the hell they are.”
That’s been my entire journey as a writer, a mother, a woman. I didn’t need to be obliterated. I needed to be reclaimed.
Yes to all of this, Jessy. Love to you 💚🌿
Also, check out One of many, a women’s coaching organisation that is doing similar work. There may be opportunities for collaboration. https://oneofmany.co.uk/
This article is spot on. I have felt like this so many times 🙌🏻